Motor Caravan Club of Ireland

our address .

Main Street Clonee  Dublin 15  phone 00353, 01 8251364 post code D15 X370

e- mail

Members don’t have to worry about green cards.

                     Updated   June 2023


 GOOD NEWS  FOR THE BIGGER CAMPERVANS?   there has been a breakthrough with legitimate downsizing, A member has done it and  got his logbook changed, Now for the details as we we are awaiting full details                                     

As a Summer has arrived and the world has gone mad particularly about motorcaravans ,well we Irish anyway, we would like to clear up a problem that is constantly recurring , people are asking us if we can we get insurance for bigger campers converted buses ,trucks, overcabs and American motorhomes, while we have procured minor miracles for some people , many many enquirers come to us as a last resort, turned down everywhere else then they turn to the real experts. So lets make it perfectly clear our underwriters have put a cap of 6,5 Tonnes max and we were lucky to get that, anything bigger, they won’t quote for and to make it even clearer  that means, it is that  what is written on the log book. It seems other insurers have a problem insuring bigger vehicles. Our underwriters have supported us in an endeavour to get the weight as done by the CVRT people accepted, many show 7.5 on the log book but actually weigh under 5 Tonnes, but the insurers take what is written on the log book as Gospel’ now here’s the problem guess what we have for a minister of transport? no point in approaching him for support  as he wants everybody on bicycles(interestingly he has a bicycle shop). Ryan want every body  to stop taking holidays if you have the cheek to fly but he does encourage taking the train, as for taking a car or camper OMG that’s sinful


We would like to advise all viewers that you cannot contact us through this website just send an email to info@Motorcaravanclub .com

We live in awful times the PC brigade had destroyed the world,  too much communication, not alone can you not express an opinion it’s coming to the stage when you can’t even think an opinion without offending some asshole. We would like to welcome you to our new word for 2023 ENTA

stands for entitled asshole and we sure get them every week

 So that you know the forum does not work as we had to stop it being  used as a stick to beat us and for that reason it does not work. So if you want to contact us, need advice or whatever use the email or phone  and we are only too happy to try and help you  and the good news is we now enjoy full fiber connection 

if our phone is busy or  not working or you just can’t get through maybe the  best way to get to  us is just Send an email to      


Arrogance is an awful affliction!

August weekend 2022 Came and went and by all accounts was very successful,very busy for caravan parks, and for the new Irish Phenomenal the Irish Aire.

Associated with our rants about the louts spoiling it for all decent motorcaravan owners, we got minimal bad reports of Louts what we did get was reports of campervan people being ripped off and we had a few reports of  a few Caravan Park management not being Nice, ” Ireland get a little bit of warm weather and  heat and the Irish Meeja go over the top, we get Amber warming notices  we got Yellow warming notices, you swear we have never see a bit of heat but the dirt and the antisocials migrates to our beaches, have you seen the news the amount of dirt and rubbish left by what can only be described a middle of the road human beings, The attitude seems to be “Me mammy works here” somebody will clean up after me, The arrogance of people they bring the shit to the clean beach and leave it behind, Now get this, they, the people that drop their rubbish  are Irish and that eejit in the green party says people need to be  better educated, God help us .Cleanliness starts in the home. Start a trend and Set an example, if you witness such people take a video of them and put it on Youtube, shaming might be a start.If you confront the dirty louts you’ll probably be told to mind your effin business, Well fool it is your business, the countryside belongs to all of us and we we do have a responsibility. for evil to prevail is just for good folk to do nothing ,Rant over

We asked people to have a bit of cop on but it seems to have fallen on deaf ears,as most selfish people  booked every camp site. We were given some useful feedback.Our answer  is turn up and ask,you have your home on your back .  it’s just greedy people booking everywhere, if they were to pay €50 non refundable deposit with every booking ,it would soon sort out that issue . We got a  report of  bad attitude by  the manager or owner at Flesk caravan park in Killarney. Our Member was booked in for 3 days his wife took ill and wanted to go home he asked for a refund and was treated very bad told he would never be allowed back in there again, Our member informed us that he said “you can rest assured with that attitude why would I or any decent person ever set foot in there ,so no need to ban me”. Our member informed the manager,” I’m a long time member of the Motorcaravan Club of Ireland and Ill  make sure the club are informed of your poor if indeed not bad attitude. Oh! Captain Boycott you live on in 2022 .

As predicted the No motorcaravans no ‘overnighting’  signs are going up everywhere and guess why? its not rocket science  just too many bad mannered ignorant louts now using motorcaravans for their own  loutish ends. And the shame is its just a small minority of ignoramus  who have this past 24 months destroyed  the good reputation that  we have taken 38 years to build up..

We were interested to see how this June weekend would pan out and here we are on Sunday 4th June looking at social media seeing the complaints.  I won’t single out any one particular Face Book site but suffice it it say if the cap fits! The new breed of greedy wont pay for anything assholes have in 24 months done awful damage to the fantastic relationship that we as the Motorcaravan club of Ireland have built up over 38 years. Remember guys show your membership when you turn up at a site. every caravan park or pub we have  recent contact with appreciate a person being a member of our organization.  Our reputation goes before us . I can anticipate  a lot of  abuse that will be aimed at us in the next few days, so it’s timely to remind all members ” You need weeds to appreciate roses”. 


As of May 1st 2022 our Insurance underwriter ,Patrona have rebranded their name               ORNELLA Underwriting Ltd>

Henceforth our insurers will be known as ORNELLA Underwriting Limited. its just a name change everything stays the same, most importantly the best motorcaravan deal in Ireland stays the same

As the price of  Diesel  has skyrocketed the distances being traveled will more than likely be curtailed. Some campsites are stating that they are fully booked up but here’s a question to think about,  so so many people are doing multiple booking and the campsites are not taking deposits  we suggest it’s just as easy to turn up and 99 time out a hindered there will be spaces. Never take no for an answer.

Just as we predicted, the sales of campers market has dropped to what we consider a reasonable state of pricing and that good but it is also quite buoyant  and people purchasing have to be sensible.  It cost little to ask and there’s no such thing as a stupid question, just a question, so please ask. I might save a packet of money (as we have found  these last 2 years)

Lovely to see so many new places to park up, many free ,quite a lot of the pubs have woken up to the reality that people in motorcaravans spend money, and by opening their car parks it’s another great source of revenue. Bring the home to the Pub rather than the other way round.  Some new motorcaravan stopovers, have appeared as a result of the Pandemic  and great source of info is Charlie and me  a camping Vlog run by Aaron Burchall . Aaron heads of in his Hymer  takes videos of the campsite including drone use of  the Aires and other viable location and you have the Free advantage of “Being” there.


Scroll down you might just learn something!

For information it was brought to our attention that some people were altering the interior of their campervans after  the van was signed off by the SQI.  Particularly  appertaining to the installation of a wood burning stove,  We want to advise any member that is insured with the Club Insurance scheme that might have a wood burner stove fitted or retro fitted  that under our insurance scheme they are not insured, Wood  or coal burner stoves or any such appliance are expressly forbidden under our insurance policy.



UPDATE . The August bank Holiday has come and gone and from all accounts it was the busiest ever, so caravan parks can’t complain, and no bad thing for our pursuit, its looking like the “Santa Ponza brigade” are already on the way to the Canaries and Spain, The pubs are open  even if limited so the drinking sessions will drop off ,the sooner the better .It looks like a lot of younger people used the Campervan as nothing more than a useful tool and excuse for drinking sessions.

Looks like my prediction is coming to fruition. I  forecast and said that the bubble would burst around late September, Its beginning to look like I was wrong ,I think  that  it’s started already , sales of campers and caravans have started already and the prices are dropping.

Traditionally the time to buy was always September when the kids went back to school and parents as well as teachers decided to sell rather than store for the winter. Looks like “Back to school” has started early .


We do have high standards for which we make no apology.

It appears from the phone calls we get that there are a number of misconception regarding the new and wonderful Insurance scheme we  now have, We are finding that a lot of people are following this page and for that reason its important to reiterate that The Motorcaravan Club can and do manage to get insurance for 25 years old to 80 years old, over 80 we have to refer but 99% successful.  That we can and do get insurance for people with only one years licence and one years driving experience. We don’t have height restrictions , never had, in simple language we can  do Tintops, we don’t have to worry about walk through to the cab, you don’t have to have a second vehicle, you can have prime vehicle status, at a very nominal cost. in fact for the right people we have the cheapest priced motorcaravan insurance in Ireland . You have full comprehensive cover, you have full 12 months continental touring cover ,you can tow a trailer without  any extra charges.  There is an option to take out roadside and tow assistance  for a very nominal €40 and lots more besides .We do observe adverse comments particularly from some former members, but we have occasionally to kick the odd person out and its always for a very good reason. From reports we are getting We get a sense that our Chuggy sticker will play a very  significant role in the near future as the club members  have a good reputation and will be welcome in most places.


Not a whole lot to update just the complaints keep on coming, from Tramore to Dungarvan, disposable bar B Ques dumped on beaches Portapottie’s and nappies dumped on beaches, but there has to be good news some where,and perhaps  there is, as  quite a number of Aires and places to stop over are appearing ,something we are working on with a member in Cork who is doing Trojan work, thank you Kieran and keep em coming.The Campers are  still in huge demand but I have noticed a slight slowing down maybe because people anticipated that the reopening would occur on on the 5th, Still the demand is  happening despite the set back. people should remain optimistic things are getting better don’t listen to RTE or the Nphet assholes who have been massaging the math’s. Half the country have a vaccination and they (the Experts) tell us 7000 might die in September, to keep fear paramount more and more bloody experts are wheeled out to contradict one another. the only one I  listen to is Dr Luke O’Neill  as and when I can ,his advice is honest.


There is a sadness  and a sure Fact that some very wrong people have entered the Motorcaravan Campervan pursuit. Just look at Facebook (or dont). There  are selfish arrogant people whose stupidity is only surpassed by their ignorance, Ignorance of what needs to be contributed to a wonderful past time to make it great for all. Such as good manners and consideration for the environment and good neighbours. We have noticed these past few months  how bad mannered selfish arrogant people come on making demands ,no patience just “we want now syndrome” and most awful “we know our rights” ,One thing We would caution people about asking to join us  is please don’t be arrogant ,we like to help people but we have  our rules to regulate the quality of campervans particularly self converted. There is so much ignorance out there and watching a few Face book sites  the ignorance is compounded by some awful advice rendered. We are now in our 38th year, we paved the way we got the first insurance ,we got the taxes down and we have provided valuable assistance to thousands that came seeking. Today we are regularly being slagged off because we are extremely cautious as to what we deem to be properly converted campervans.  Over the past 37 years we have never had to put up with  so many bad mannered people as are about today. Pandemic my ass, manners are bred into people.

We thank what ever God you like for the loyal membership we have built up over all those years .We and the loyal members did the ground work, we paved the way for our pursuit  but we could never have anticipated what has happened  as a result of  ,lets call it what it is the  Chinese virus. Maybe when the pubs re open and hospitality  and foreign travel start again the pursuit of the campervan will stabilise and a degree of normality will return. We hope and look forward  to that day when we as Campervan people will be welcome back in the towns and villages.  A cautious prediction, We think the bubble will burst around end of September beginning October 2021 . God and vaccines permitting

_______________________________________________________________________      June 8th 21

We re-opened today at 9.30 the phone never stopped all day. First phone call was logged at 850 despite the fact that we don’t open until 930.  We sent out 19 enquiries this evening that’s a record.  Didn’t the weather have a big influence, the East got the best .Inevitably we have had numerous stories of where members went for the weekend, 90% good reports, and that in itself is no bad thing, however  there were quite a few  rants about No overnight camping signs going up along the western seaboard ( we did predict it) some  people saying there were swamped by campervans,  some others  reported anti social behaviour by some ignorant people in motorcaravans, parking illegally, blocking peoples entrances and taking up too much space in public and some pub car parks just pure bad manners, but we expected that. This June weekend was as predicted   a major watershed for the pursuit of the Motorcaravan campervan. My observation is it will either make or break the pursuit. Lets see what the fallout  is for the rest of the week. If people don’t observe common decency and good manners it will destroy what we have built up these past 37 years. As the pubs are now open I have a hope that the “louts” will sell up and return to the pubs to drink.

Didn’t take long   Streedagh beach, Co.Sligo, signs have gone up   today,  no overnight camping etc and Motorcaravan is included, the signs don’t have any CO Co Bylaw support so they are probably by pissed off locals but who can blame them . This the weekend of the 16th May will be most interesting

Please when you come across the louts that during Covid have bought campervans and are giving the pursuit a bad name, Please please say something, for if we don’t it’s just a matter of a short time to when there won’t be a pursuit.  The amount of bad press coming our way is terrible, louts arriving in beauty spots setting up camp partying all night disturbing locals, blocking car parking, and telling locals to fuck off when they are approached. The answer is to take pictures of their number plates take video of their loutish actions. put it on Facebook or You-tube, The Gardai have enough to do but they will have to take action when locals make formal complaints,  County Councils and Harbour authorities, as has happened in KIlmore quay, the Hook, Dunmore East, Mullaghmore ,Howth Harbour ,Fanore Strand,Authorities  will have no option but to ban motorcaravans, even today we have heard of a Height barrier at the Mahon Falls. The responsibility is with all of us , don’t be afraid to tell the louts that their actions are disgusting.

Tis a bright day brings forth the  Adder! same applies to campervan’s and withthe good weather come the social media crap, rumours  about Gardai checking reg numbers etc.You just have to take that crap on facebook with a grain of salt. Yes there are lots of you out and about these past few days and the blessed relief is great as campervan’s are no threat to public health. what is a threat is stupidity. We are staggered with the amount of good will towards the club particularly after such a harrowing year, We for our part ore only too pleased to help people but for Gods sake help yourselves if your looking for assistance, give us the information to help you, we  are not clairvoyant we can’t help  if we don’t know who ,where and what your about and please stop insulting us when we ask the direct question “who are you” We refer in particular to the paragraph underneath.Incidentally There was a full moon last night and the bus from Uranus definitely left last night and arrived to day, Ill say no more.That said! You have to have weeds to appreciate roses and to all our loyal members thanks a million

What about last weekend W/E April 24th, we are getting a few reports(not complaints) of campers blocking up parking areas, Youghal, Skerries, Dungarvan, Kilmore Quay , Carlingford, locals complaining , be careful lads and lassies our pursuit is fragile.

What is it with some people ? we go out of our way to help people then, we get some idiotic queries and some even more stupid people coming on seeking information about Motorcaravans and when we offer assistance we get abused. People seeking assistance should realise that it’s a two way traffic,we have to know with whom we are dealing with and the type of vehicle,refuse to give us the basic details and we can’t help, its as simple as that.  Those that abuse us are put into the AH file and will  forever be blackballed and never get assistance from us.      Freedom is not just a word,  Travel Freedom  is coming soon.

Patience is a virtue, so hang in there.

Lazy Days Campers

We have been getting some very good reports about our friends in Lazy Days Campers in Wicklow and quite a few new members with their conversions. For that reason I’m putting them on the front page as highly recommended  by the club, we will be including them in our other publications as well and please note that when you read a good review in any publication always look for that add that pays for the review, if there’s an add somewhere take the review with a grain of something.

Note there’s no add here, just our way of saying well done ,good people to deal with.  We have some very good reviews from our members. It would appear to us from member reports that Sue is very popular with her customers, likewise we feel the same. You may well ask is there a connection? yes there is Cillian our appointed engineer SQI  certifies the Campers for Sue and that’s good enough for us.  Google Lazy Days Campers its an interesting site.

Lazy Days, Kernow,Cullen Lower, Three Mile Water,Wicklow, A67 WD30.Email: Call: Sue +353 (0)872885771.

One thing that puzzles us is the amount  of antipathy towards our club that comes across on Facebook some less informed idiots on some facebook sites seem to take joy in knocking the club (you have to ask yourself why),These idiots don’t appreciate the amount of work we have done these past 37 years, Lowered the VRT rate from 33% to 13.3%,  got the road fund tax down to 50 Punts at one stage,  Got the very first insurance deal for motorcaravans in Ireland.Yes we have achieved a lot  for our pursuit and even today we fight battles for our people. So  we ask ,pay no heed to those idiots, just ask  were they turned down and if so for what reason ? and we do turn down quite a few.


Something worthy of a rant or a  moan  ,some people who are applying for the best campervan insurance in Ireland, they  get our information pack and for the life of me they won’t  read the damn papers, the other annoying thing  is the number of enquiries we get  on line and as soon as we ask for details of the person and the Campervan they go silent.,  If you want information and assistance please reply to our standard query sheet Some people have mobile phones witheld .  As soon as it come up on the screen we are reluctant to answer

More good news today the 25th March 21 our new club Insurance underwriters Patrona now have the credit- debit card system working as of this afternoon.This will now make the best campervan insurance scheme in Ireland  even better.

 We got the Jab over the weekend feel a lot safer now, so on wards an upwards, I love the optimism of members who are making plans for the great “Off” when it comes, my guess and hope is some time in May.

Not alone are we busy, now we have to contend with dirty tricks by our former Insurance brokers, we have heard from members that they are getting phone calls and emails giving them false information, It’s dangerous to say just what these phone calls are about but suffice it to say a few members have reverted to our former brokers only to find that they were misled. One point for all members to remember is that we have everything we had with the previous deal and more, you can have your low roof camper (Tintop) insured and you can use it as your prime vehicle, this time it’s in writing, and you can use your camper to commute. If your in any doubt please call us or email us if you have any  misconceptions.Our New deal is a whole lot better,fairer and cheaper.Isn’t it very sad that we the people have made the bed to lie on we can’t even name a business or even an idiot for fear of being sued, it’s become an awful world , because of us the people . people are scared to say what they think, why ? maybe  they might offend some idiot, or maybe they might sue us. The PC brigade are destroying the world I have to think maybe Trump was right?.

WE in all our 37 years have never let a member down.

We are busy, so please bear with us, if you have trouble getting through on the phone send us an email we will call you back  as soon as we can, this will go on for the next few weeks while we update our members we are glad to say we have almost 99 % support


We are astounded by how many people don’t read further than the first paragraph, even now while they  have little or nothing to do, a lot of the people  ring in “Can I ask you a question”   when the damn answer is right in front of their eyes if only they would read.

As of today 21st of January 2021 we are no longer associated with Richardson Insurance and we now have a new Insurer, PATRONA, with a better deal and a much better price. In fact we now probably have  the best camper van Insurance deal in Ireland and it’s exclusive to the Motorcaravan Club Members.

We have to amend and update some pages so please bear with us

 We are very busy with  the new Insurance deal and membership renewals, if you can’t phone us send an email we will return a call.

And so it begins 2021 and all we have to do to stay safe is stay at home for a few weeks. It’s all in the mind you know!. After a tough 2020.              2021 started with a New dawn and New hope.We thank our members for their huge support. As of today’s date only a handful have opted to stay with our former broker and I have to say we could be forgiven for thinking that we might be glad to be rid of them.You can’t really appreciate a rose unless you have few weeds.                                            To all our friends , Stay safe, better times ahead.

For our members some really good news.

                                                        A prediction,

July 2021 will be the turning point. May will see a start , June will be a new beginning but September will be when people can make plans to tour the continent.

The Chinese Virus

The virus was winning the war because  Christmas was a bloody disaster, folks just went looney the sensible people are safe, the idiots and those they infected are in hospital. 10% of the population is being very stupid, Dublin in particular

Every day we hear the question,  any news?, well simple answer is No  the year 2020 will go down in history as the non year.

There’s one thing that really annoys the hell out of me is the number of idiots that voice  usually ill informed opinions on social media.

The sad part is while the camper may be your home if temporarily the 5 K rule takes precedence so a Guard can tell you  to go home or even worse today they can now fine you or even imprison you.,

In all our 36 years we have never been as busy, the campervan has become the new toilet paper, everybody wants one ,which leads to buyer beware, there are so many scams going on that the buyer really has to beware. We heard of a man in Donegal who put his camper up for sale to find 5-6 cars parked on his roadway waiting for 9  Am to approach him about buying his camper. In the last 4 weeks(July 2020) we have sent out on average 15 new applications every day .

Ill call it what it is

we as humans were winning the battle however  if we as humans are not careful stupidity and “I know my rights” will cost us the war,

We are now living in a very desperate and dangerous time, the world is at war with the tiniest being on our planet. We are asking all our members and friends to observe the simple rule of staying at home, what’s a weekend compared to a lifetime. There will be other days it’s not the end of the world it’s the beginning of a new world as we all will find out when the war is over, and humanity will win eventually .So if not for your own safety then for the sake of humanity use your camper wisely , To break the monotony Maybe just have a picnic in your drive, pretend your  parked by the sea or  maybe even in the mountain, but please show that motorcaravan owners are responsible people, just stay at home for now .

Our fax machine no longer works its all scans these days .


Breaking news 2020

Howth Harbour has now banned Motorcaravans, Just as I predicted the bad mannered idiots who “knew their rights” have managed to cause the Harbour authorities  to put up very substantial signs banning over nighting in motorcaravans in the harbour area.

Have you seen Charlie and Me our camping vlog (Video Blog) by Aaron Burchael,

worthy of a look, its gaining a lot of interest Ill put more on this later he is having great fun with the old box ambulance he has converted  these past 4 months. Its worthy of a look in Youtube : Charlie and me.

We think this is a great idea,  Charlie   takes off camping  with Aaron in tow, (he drives the Hymer) the visit campsites, wild spots and do a video ,its a great idea as it give you  a few ideas about the place you seen the site, you hear about the facilities and the prices.Aaron does the chat as Charlie is shy and maybe a bit reluctant, does not like too much exposure., As he has started he continues so  log on to

Charlie and Me our camping Vlog, save those spots you might like to visit later and pass them on to your friends , We are adding some places that have given  permission to the Tavern Trail, of benefit to our members and visitors to our country.

Edit update March 2021


 More to follow later

      check out our  New News pages .

This where we are updating New News.

Something new has come to our attention, about people buying off Done Deal, we are advising  all potential buyers to do a car check. A potential new member brought this to our attention buying a camper that is on done deal the mileage is spurious .hop over to our New News pages  for more 

.  .  As with all weekends   our phone is on answering machine and is monitored so ,if any member has a problem leave a clear message.your name and phone number speak clearly and slowly lots of people speak fast and tail off, we don’t get the full number  and you will get a call back.

Please remember there is no breakdown cover on your insurance unless you have taken out the special auxiliary breakdown and repatriation insurance with AGA Mondial.


We have a new Insurance deal  and its good  please remember the deal is better than the price of the 5 companies who insure campers we have the best deal.  things you should seriously consider, Can you tow a trailer without extra costs, can you do temp or permanent substitution without being charged ? Can you substitute a car for the camper while its being serviced? can you use your camper to go to and from work?  Can your camper be your main vehicle ? Can you get repatriation insurance cover while touring the continent ?

of course you can,

Our New Insurer will give the best cover, the cheapest and the best overall package for all Members.    People who apply to use our insurance scheme now will be going on the new 365 days deal. In simple language what ever day you take out the insurance it runs for the full 12 months.  . .

don’t forget to scroll down

don’t forget to look at  the New News pages some news bits about home built  conversions.

 Things are returning to normal, our office hours are 9.30 to 5PM Monday to Friday , outside of these times  if you need us leave a good clear message on the answering machine we will get back to you.

Our Club Insurance scheme . as of 01/01/2021  we are now going 12 months cover.,


 We have amended our Height rule, on the  FAQ page, We can and do arrange insurance on low roof campervans provided they pass scrutiny by one of our appointed engineers.  

We put up breaking or important news on the front page, It’s astounding how many people don’t read any further than the front page.  People seeking information should search the relevant pages

 Some people ask about joining on line, this we do not do as we are selective, however  it’s quite easy, just go to our about us page and see what you have to do , We have no problem sending out by post  (snail Mail) an information pack.

Decent people are never exact!

  As of 5th Sept 2014 We  appointed a new SQI to assess motorcaravans on our behalf in the south west Michael Moynihan of Kerry Campers               087 1350500 And Dublin area , Cillian O’Cinneide 086 3849429  if either phone is busy send a text they will get back to you

 Our History

The Motor Caravan Club of Ireland is 37 years in existence, it was formed in 1983 to act as a forum for those like minded people who are interested in the pursuit of the Motorized caravan. The  Club has been highly successful in promoting the use of the motor-caravans here in Ireland and has encouraged friendship amongst thousands of people of similar persuasion. It has also supported the tourist industry, and encouraged motor-caravan owners and hirers from other countries to visit Ireland.

Membership of the club is reserved for people who love the free way of life that the motor-caravan can give and are of good character. We have but one rule GOOD MANNERS. Where Possible the Club like people who are   seeking to join to be recommended by existing members but if you do not know any member just inform us and we can see what can be done.

Our website is a starting point for everybody interested in this fascinating hobby pursuit. We would like to invite members and visitors to share hints, tips and ideas with us Our forum does not work and for very good reason  . Lots of people are innovative and this can be quite helpful, so log in and partake in the fun. The pages of this web site are here to provide help and assistance and of course a modicum of fun for all who visit our site.

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